Utilizador	Resposta
kanarias De: mafra 5/25/2007 2:35:35 AM	Ovinizar se for uma criatura indestrutivle tbm perde o indestrutivel? Tópico Locked Responder
Cookie De: Lisboa 5/28/2007 6:32:50 PM	re perde
kanarias De: mafra 5/28/2007 2:41:38 PM	ovinizar mas final perde indestrutivel ou nao?
Cookie De: Lisboa 5/26/2007 4:46:22 PM	I’m Right (english text) "The problem with any online forum that answers Magic rules question is that a change in rules might invalidate the answer. Thus it’s vitally important to know when the ruling was made so you can gauge whether the ruling is still valid. In this case it is not, because the ruling refers to "characteristic-setting abilities" and they don’t exist any more. So you have to start from cold with the actual ruls. Firstly, here is the relevant rule, reformatted for ease of readability. 418.5a The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object, then applying continuous effects in a series of layers in the following order: copy effects (see rule 503, “Copying Objects”); control-changing effects; text-changing effects; type-, subtype-, and supertype-changing effects; all other continuous effects, except those that change power and/or toughness; power- and/or toughness-changing effects. Inside each layer from 1 through 5, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first, then all other effects in timestamp order. Inside layer 6, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the following order effects from characteristic-setting abilities; all other effects not specifically applied in 6c, 6d, or 6e; changes from counters; effects from static abilities that modify power and/or toughness but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value; effects that switch a creature’s power and toughness. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer or sublayer. See also the rules for timestamp order and dependency (rules 418.5b–418.5g). When determining the order in which two abilities apply, you check (i) Layer, (ii) whether either are Characteristic-Defining Abilities, (iii) whether one is dependent on the other and (iv) timestamp. Both Humble and the ability of Darksteel Colossus apply in Layer 5. Neither are characteristic-defining abilities (Rule 405.2 states that CDAs are "intrinsic static abilities that define the object’s colors, subtypes, power, or toughness" and "Darksteel Colossus is indestructible" defines none of these. The Colossus’s ability depends on the effect of Humble because the Humble effect changes the very existence of the "~This~ is indestructible" effect. Thus you apply the effect of Humble first, removing the Colossus’s ability. Since it is removed, there is no ability to apply any more. Consequently the Colossus is not indestructible." Aqui tens a resposta que eu dizia. Essa regra já não existe (desactualizado hein?). A alignea que pus no topico em baixo e valida por isso isto e uma questao tao basica que erraste , quem diria. CONCLUSÃO: PERDE O INDESTRUCTIBLE
Cookie De: Lisboa 5/26/2007 4:35:05 PM	re coisa tao basica... uma regra que e mudada de ano para ano devido quando se encontram em jogo 2 opalescences + humility... muitos dos judges ainda confundem, pois tu so viste a parte que te interessava... esta regra contradiz o que disseste: 405.2. Some objects have intrinsic static abilities which state that the object “has” one or more characteristic values; “is” a particular type, supertype, subtype, or color; um judge lvl 2, no mtgsalvation ja disse que perdia, por isso a questão nao e TAO basica como dizes, nem motivo de humilhaçao, se te achas o ser supremo azar, mas essa questao tem sido alvo de muitas duvidas
Dark.Fenix De: Coimbra 5/25/2007 8:25:03 PM	re f_lanca xii!! coisa basica... olha k eu pensava como o cookie, olho pra carta e akilo parece-s com voar ou iniciativa, nem todos sabiam isso mas pronto cá estamos a aprender...~ fika bem.
f_lanca De: Vila Real de Santo António 5/25/2007 6:45:05 PM	re Cookie Cookie nunca pensei que nao soubesses coisas tao basicas mas ok...Acho que nao ha nda mais obio que isto ""Indestructible" is not a keyword ability. It’s just a word with a specific English meaning that’s used as part of a permanent’s abilities, like "unblockable." When an effect states that "[this permanent] is indestructible," it’s stating a quality about that permanent, not giving it an ability." "Q: If someone Humbles my Darksteel Colossus will he stop being indestructible? A: No, the line of text that makes the Colossus indestructible is a characteristic setting ability. By the time that you apply Humble’s effect the Colossus will already have that characteristic. The Colossus will be a 1/1, but it will still be indestructible. The ability that causes is to be shuffled into your library will be gone, though. Humble is one way to get the Colossus into a graveyard." by SCG Fica bem
Cookie De: Lisboa 5/25/2007 6:37:13 PM	re sim claro que tira o indestructible....
f_lanca De: Vila Real de Santo António 5/25/2007 1:54:10 PM	re Não retira Indestructible pois isso é uma caracteristica da carta e não uma habilidade. Fica bem

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