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bolas
De: Cidade Vila Nova de Santo André
2/13/2010 10:48:05 PM
sorin markov
Como é que funciona o finisher do Sorin? O que é que se pode fazer quando se controla o turno do oponente? Pode-se virar terrenos sem usar a manda deles? Posso jogar mágicas sem alvo? Posso descartar a minha mão (do oponente)?
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S1NE4T3R

Moderador
De: Laranjeiro
2/13/2010 11:54:20 PM
Re
Podes jogar magicas com alvo, desde que o alvo escolhido seja legal. Por exemplo podes jogar um Bolt do oponente nele mesmo, pois um Bolt requer um target creature or player. Mas nao te esqueças que tens de usar a mana do oponente para o fazer. Nao podes usar a tua mana para pagar pelos spells do oponente.

Mas por exemplo se jogares uma mágica do oponente que requer um "target opponent" aí ja nao podes jogar essa mágica nele proprio. Pois um "target opponent" sao os jogadores que se opoem a ele.

Criaturas atacarem o proprio dono? Isso é uma ilegal action. Nao podes fazer com que as criaturas dele ataquem-no a ele. Criaturas só podem atacar jogadores defensores ou planeswalkers que os jogadores defensores controlem. Podes é fazer com que ele nao declare nenhuma atacante para ti ou um walker que tu controles.

Cumps
Alterado a 2/13/2010 11:55:55 PM por S1NE4T3R

bolas

De: Cidade Vila Nova de Santo André
2/13/2010 11:24:38 PM
re
okok. entao se eu bem percebi, eu posso escolher o alvo das magicas do oponente, ou seja, posso usar um raio contra mim mesmo (neste caso o oponente) certo? Não posso fazer com que as criaturas me ataquem (o oponente, de novo) pois não?

S1NE4T3R

Moderador
De: Laranjeiro
2/13/2010 10:55:34 PM
Re
Muitas dessas coisas que citaste nao sao possiveis, pois ia ser uma batota do caraças.

Ao controlares o turno de um oponente, és tu que fazes todas as escolhas legais que esse jogador iria fazer. Nao podes fazer com que o jogador faça illegal actions ou fazer escolhas sem existir nenhum efeito que peça uma escolha.

Nao podes fazer absurdos como descartar a mao dele para nenhum efeito ou jogar spells sem alvo...isso é ilegal pelo jogo.

O turno dele procede normalmente, mas decides o que ele joga nesse turno (tens um pouco de controlo sobre o que está na mao dele), podes escolher usar legalmente habilidades de permanentes que ele controle (triggered abilities que disparem lembra-te que sao colocadas automaticamente na stack, nao tens controlo sobre se disparam ou nao), podes fazer as decisoes de combate (que criaturas atacam), podes virar-lhe os terrenos, mas para mana ou outro efeito existente, mas podes escolher se ele usa a mana ou nao....coisas deste genero.

Nao podes obriga-lo a fazer illegal actions ou obriga-lo a conceder o jogo.

Deixo aqui os rulings do Sorin do gatherer em relaçao a este topico:

"While controlling another player’s turn, you can see all cards that player can see. This includes cards in that player’s hand, face-down cards that player controls, and any cards in that player’s library that an effect lets him or her look at.

While controlling another player’s turn, you make all choices and decisions that player is allowed to make or is told to make during that turn. For example: -- You choose which lands the other player plays. -- You choose which spells the other player casts, and make all decisions as those spells are cast and as they resolve. For example, you choose the value of X for that player’s Earthquake, the target for that player’s Lightning Bolt, what mana that player spends to cast Day of Judgment, and what card that player gets with Diabolic Tutor. -- You choose which activated abilities the other player activates, and make all decisions as those abilities are activated and as they resolve. For example, you can have your opponent sacrifice his or her creatures to his or her Vampire Aristocrat or have your opponent’s Caller of Gales give one of your creatures flying. -- You make all decisions for the other player’s triggered abilities, including what they target and any decisions made when they resolve. -- You choose which creatures controlled by the other player attack, who or what they attack, and how they assign their combat damage. -- You make any choices and decisions that player would make for any other reason. For example, you could cast Fact or Fiction, choose that player to divide the revealed cards into piles, and thus divide those cards into piles yourself.

You can’t make the affected player concede. That player may choose to concede at any time, even while you’re controlling his or her turn.

You can’t make any illegal decisions or illegal choices -- you can’t do anything that player couldn’t do. You can’t make choices or decisions for that player that aren’t called for by the game rules or by any cards, permanents, spells, abilities, and so on. If an effect causes another player to make decisions that the affected player would normally make (such as Master Warcraft does), that effect takes precedence. (In other words, if the affected player wouldn’t make a decision, you wouldn’t make that decision on his or her behalf.) You also can’t make any choices or decisions for the player that would be called for by the tournament rules (such as whether to take an intentional draw or whether to call a judge).

You can use only the affected player’s resources (cards, mana, and so on) to pay costs for that player; you can’t use your own. Similarly, you can use the affected player’s resources only to pay that player’s costs; you can’t spend them on your costs.

Only the control of the turn changes. You don’t control any of the other player’s permanents, spells, or abilities.

Controlling a player’s turn won’t let you look at that player’s sideboard under any circumstances. During a tournament, if you have that player cast a card such as Glittering Wish that lets that player choose a card with certain characteristics from outside the game, no card can be chosen."


Cumps
Alterado a 2/13/2010 11:01:45 PM por S1NE4T3R
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